Mapadd limitations

Need Help? The Day isnt going so well on the Mapping front?
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Sabre
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Mapadd limitations

Post by Sabre » Mon Apr 18, 2011 3:21 am

I've been playing a bunch of Half Life mods recently. The kind which are basicly maps with maybe a few custom textures and models. You know the type. I was playing Precursor, (an excelet mod, if you've not played it you really should) and I started thinking about mapadds. I checked the OC wiki. I don't feel like decompiling the maps just to add a few spawns, npcs and weapons.

First, the mapadd tools are dead links, as are some of the mapadd files themselves like the Metastasis one.

Second, I got thinking about the limitations of the system. Adding duplicate weapons and ammo for the extra players is fine, maybe popping down a couple of npcs provided I can get ahold of a mapadd txt with that stuff to copy paste from. However, some things are tougher. Lifts that have no way of returning, doors that slam shut behind you ect. Is there a way to mapadd around these?

Next, skipping entire maps. Precursor has a map that is a train ride with no action. The problem is that any player who joined even a few seconds late would miss the train and land outside the map. Is it possable to mapadd in such a way that another map would be loaded?

Finally, difficulty. It's a great SP map series, but not that tough, and multiple players would make it easier. I don't want to drop tonnes of NPCs in and cause lag. Do edits of skill config happen on a map by map basis? If so, I can make some small tweaks to increase the challenge without turning the enemies into damage sponges. (Does OC do this by default anyway?)

Thanks.

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Re: Mapadd limitations

Post by Maestro Fénix » Mon Apr 18, 2011 10:10 am

The main limitations are that you cant change entity brushes (you cant fix the tanks in HL:S) and a thing more.

About the respawning, is better make it directly on the way, in the example of the train, in the train.

Someone of the team said that in the next version the difficulty will be fixed (no more rushing,no more 8 players vs 3 soldiers).


Decompiling, fixing and compiling maps will make available to everyone have modified maps from a game without having it, so it cant be done.


I wish i could fix HL:S in OC (i think that actually if i dedicate time to it i could fix the map transitions and the weapon respawns).
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Re: Mapadd limitations

Post by Sabre » Mon Apr 18, 2011 1:51 pm

"About the respawning, is better make it directly on the way, in the example of the train, in the train."

Would that work? The map starts on a moving train. Let's say I set a spawn for 0.0.0, the server/host loads, and the train starts moving, 2 seconds later the client loads, the spawn would be at 0.0.0, but the train would be at 50.0.0. I doubt it would possable to tie the spawn to the train in a mapadd?

"Someone of the team said that in the next version the difficulty will be fixed (no more rushing,no more 8 players vs 3 soldiers)."
I think that's a campaign mapadd, or possably a spawn multiplier, or both.

"I wish i could fix HL:S in OC (i think that actually if i dedicate time to it i could fix the map transitions and the weapon respawns)."
What is the problem? Assuming certain maps are cut or duplicates of a couple of maps are included, (not the full game) I think it would be doable? Personally, I'd rather focus on getting the big 3 fan campaigns working. Precursor, Metastsis, and Mission Improbable. Maybe the leon packs, but those are huge, and they have done something to the AI to make combine bumb as shovels.

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Re: Mapadd limitations

Post by fug4life » Mon Jun 13, 2011 9:57 am

Its possible to change player spawns with mapadds aswell as enable one set and disable another.

With something moving, it gets a bit more complex as player spawns cant be parented. However I think teleport spawns can.
So you'd have to enbale a teleport after a certain amount of time, so it catches the spawning players and transfers them to the train.
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Re: Mapadd limitations

Post by Sabre » Thu Jul 28, 2011 4:37 am

Speaking of, I was looking at Smod today, their mapadds have something called instant_trig, it's an entity that goes off when a play enters a certain range. I was thinking, if OC has something like that, would it not be possible to mapadd a map change before the real map change and bypass it altogether?

I also came across a campaign called Slums 2 Extended. While the game is very narrow, dark and easy except for the mod is very stingy with ammo (thus limiting it to 2 players) almost all the maps you can walk from the finish to the start with only some 1 way jumps. Once the next version of OC is out, I'm going to see of I can mount it and mapadd some spawns into it and see if it works.

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Re: Mapadd limitations

Post by Maestro Fénix » Thu Jul 28, 2011 8:53 am

Sabre wrote:Speaking of, I was looking at Smod today, their mapadds have something called instant_trig, it's an entity that goes off when a play enters a certain range. I was thinking, if OC has something like that, would it not be possible to mapadd a map change before the real map change and bypass it altogether?

I also came across a campaign called Slums 2 Extended. While the game is very narrow, dark and easy except for the mod is very stingy with ammo (thus limiting it to 2 players) almost all the maps you can walk from the finish to the start with only some 1 way jumps. Once the next version of OC is out, I'm going to see of I can mount it and mapadd some spawns into it and see if it works.
Probably nothing happens, because we dont have that entity/system.

That is one of my questions. Can be improved the mapadd system (allowing edit/create brushes would fix directly a lot of bugs), or zteer reached the limit of the engine?
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Re: Mapadd limitations

Post by Shana » Thu Jul 28, 2011 7:21 pm

Maestro Fénix wrote:Probably nothing happens, because we dont have that entity/system.
We do, point_trigger.
Maestro Fénix wrote:Can be improved the mapadd system (allowing edit/create brushes would fix directly a lot of bugs)
You can edit brush entities via their origin, you can also add new ones, though only in place of exisiting brush models by using their model number.
Maestro Fénix wrote:zteer reached the limit of the engine?
What? he didn't make the mapadd system lol
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Re: Mapadd limitations

Post by Maestro Fénix » Thu Jul 28, 2011 9:27 pm

W0rf0x wrote: You can edit brush entities via their origin, you can also add new ones, though only in place of exisiting brush models by using their model number.
Then the info about the tool is outdated.
W0rf0x wrote: What? he didn't make the mapadd system lol
uhhhh i dont remember very well the names, you know?
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Re: Mapadd limitations

Post by Axel_m3sh » Thu Jul 28, 2011 10:56 pm

I think Fenix was talking about the tool that GENERATED the mapadds lol

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Re: Mapadd limitations

Post by fug4life » Thu Jul 28, 2011 11:35 pm

I think W0rf0x knows what you think Fenix is on about, W0rf0x I think is trying to explain the tool is un-related to the matter of mapadd capabilities and restrictions.
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Re: Mapadd limitations

Post by Shana » Fri Jul 29, 2011 6:20 am

Maestro Fénix wrote:
W0rf0x wrote: You can edit brush entities via their origin, you can also add new ones, though only in place of exisiting brush models by using their model number.
Then the info about the tool is outdated.
Not really, it says you can't add brush ents, change or delete their outputs, but you can add new outputs as much as you want.
Adding new brush ents you can't do with the generator since brush model numbers aren't in the vmf.
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Re: Mapadd limitations

Post by TESLA-X4 » Fri Jul 29, 2011 8:14 am

I actually have plans to add a brush preview feature to the next version to make life easier for MapAdd authors. I might even be able to backport it with SourceMod. No promises yet, but I'll see what I can come up with.
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Re: Mapadd limitations

Post by fug4life » Fri Jul 29, 2011 4:24 pm

I still miss the request thread, would love to post up some code based requests, though some are old.

Weapon Scripting really needs some love. Though I'm sure you've got tasks to prioritise etc.
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Re: Mapadd limitations

Post by Maestro Fénix » Fri Jul 29, 2011 4:39 pm

fug4life wrote:I still miss the request thread, would love to post up some code based requests, though some are old.

Weapon Scripting really needs some love. Though I'm sure you've got tasks to prioritise etc.
I did a BIG request about it in the bugtracker. With a bit of luck, all my petitions will be listened and done for the next version (in my request, apart of fix the broken options, add new variables and possibilities, like make custom melee weapons or models for the medikits and others).
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