Obsidian Conflict Hazard Course: The old dream

Discuss Certain Aspects of Mapping, Modeling, and Coding.
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Until what level we should explain the gameplay?

Press W and look up to climp up a ladder
2
33%
Pressing "button" will indicate you on the screen the position of the players
2
33%
Press "button" to share some points to the selected player
2
33%
 
Total votes: 6

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Obsidian Conflict Hazard Course: The old dream

Post by Maestro Fénix » Wed Apr 17, 2013 8:57 pm

Everyone who plays Obsidian Conflict nowdays (or any co-op game like Killing Floor) will already know that the "experience" of the new players are poor. For example, today, playing on a map, a new player couldn´t follow us because he just didn´t knew how to climb a ladder, or outside of OC, that infamous Black Mesa walkthrough where the author didn´t knew how to crouch-jump and said that the mod "has a bugged jumping mechanic".

Since this large wave of rookie players will probably continue coming on the following years, I propose an idea: A map tutorial that helps the new players about how to play OC.

The veterans players/forum users will probably remember this idea, talked many times on groups/in game and showed here and on the classified archives, which, since is not public, i can´t show it.

The premise of this map would be simple: Teach the players about how to play cooperatively, as well as the "core" gameplay of OC:
shiftey wrote:Examples of what are common things the player should know are:
  • battery/plug puzzles
  • moving an object that requires more than one person
  • 2 person switches/buttons
  • using each other to reach high places
  • the crane puzzle
Ny wrote:
  • ammo window
  • points transfer
  • medic callout (would make a good scene if the mapper damages the player and assigns the call out to get the npc to heal the player)
  • warning callout
  • player locator
  • merchant buying system
  • cash pickups
  • how to use the healer (players and npcs)
As well as other stuff, like how to use the shield and the cloak, and such.

But here is where it comes the problems: How to do it easy to understand? Until what level we should explain the gameplay? What stuff should be explained and what should be left to the player to be learn?

Please participate on the poll and respond to this thread, even if you think that you have an stupid idea. The quality of the players of a mod/game is of an extreme importance, and it can make the people come or leave.
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Re: Obsidian Conflict Hazard Course: The old dream

Post by Axel_m3sh » Fri Apr 19, 2013 8:53 am

Jumpcrouch/crouchjump: Press the jump key then press and hold crouch key immediately after. Nothin' to it.

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Re: Obsidian Conflict Hazard Course: The old dream

Post by Maestro Fénix » Fri Apr 19, 2013 12:01 pm

Axel_m3sh wrote:Jumpcrouch/crouchjump: Press the jump key then press and hold crouch key immediately after. Nothin' to it.
Agreed.
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Re: Obsidian Conflict Hazard Course: The old dream

Post by RocketRunner » Fri Jun 14, 2013 11:27 am

Yeah, I suppose some basic movement stuff should be implemented.

Would this tutorial be accessed from the main menu?
I usually run from rockets.
Pretty straightforward.

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Re: Obsidian Conflict Hazard Course: The old dream

Post by Maestro Fénix » Fri Jun 14, 2013 4:18 pm

RocketRunner wrote:Yeah, I suppose some basic movement stuff should be implemented.

Would this tutorial be accessed from the main menu?
Since I´m the main responsible of this, regarless of the idea of Fug and the "first like" of the DEVs, it will be community-made and not official (unless it gets a good quality level and the typical process and bla bla...).

I´m thinking about doing something like a similar map did on Sven Co-op, with a hall, and many stuff. Anyway, I expect during this weeking upload the "map overview" that I´m making, in order to build it on Hammer later.
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Re: Obsidian Conflict Hazard Course: The old dream

Post by Maestro Fénix » Sun Jun 16, 2013 11:05 am

Alright, this is what I thought to make in Hammer:

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  1. Basic movement 1 (WASD, mouse look and Use) *Start spawnpoint*.
  2. Basic movement 2 (jump, crouch, jump crouch, swim and ladders).
  3. Basic co-op 1 (2 person button, using each other to reach high places, moving an object that requires more than one person).
  4. Basic co-op 2 (Crane, battery puzzle, player locator, cash pickups).
  5. Basic co-op 3 (Flashlight, warning and medic callout, use of the healer).
  6. Final track course room (ammo window, points transfer, merchants, combat, lives gameplay system). *At the end, a teleport makes go the players to the hall*.
  7. Hall (Decorate it like it was the OC forum/Lobby, with photos and characters and all) *Give the options of repeating again the training or teleport them to an actual combat somewhere*.
  8. Battlefield (real combat, co-op puzzles, use of jeeps).
I think that I didn´t left behind any co-op feature. What do you think?
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Re: Obsidian Conflict Hazard Course: The old dream

Post by TESLA-X4 » Sun Jun 16, 2013 11:19 am

Axel_m3sh wrote:Jumpcrouch/crouchjump: Press the jump key then press and hold crouch key immediately after. Nothin' to it.
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Apparently, Valve can't make games beyond the number 2.
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Re: Obsidian Conflict Hazard Course: The old dream

Post by Dominic » Sun Jun 16, 2013 8:41 pm

Ideas:
  • Crouch jumping through pipes, similar to hl1 obstacle course,
  • crouching under pipes,
  • avoiding poison smoke / fire?? ,
  • underwater lesson,
  • Oh most importantly most people don't know that you can press e on hl2 to ladders to attach and detach from them.
  • Shooting range for all the guns, but you are not required to use all of them to continue, it will force you to use at least 2 - 3 then the rest is optional.
  • Adding on to the shooting range thing, have situational ways of testing your weapon out, for example jumping and shooting, being on a ladder and shooting, shooting underwater, show the player how all of these things affect your recoil, and how disorienting it is.
  • Put at least one physics puzzle in
  • Demonstrate the 2 person rotating wheel, to show players that you sometimes need two player instead of one to continue, although I'm not sure how exactly you could do it if you are alone, maybe an npc on the other side to just show you need another person?

Another thing to note is, once the steamworks of OC comes out you'll have more things to play with or add, such as delivering info via the military tablet and using the new guns.

That's all the ideas I have now hopefully it'll help :)

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Re: Obsidian Conflict Hazard Course: The old dream

Post by Maestro Fénix » Mon Jun 17, 2013 6:01 pm

Dominichax sugested to make something like a museum like the showed on the following videos, to explain to the new players how are the enemies that are in OC, and some facts about them:

[BBvideo 425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7AECa66FI0[/BBvideo] [BBvideo 425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2h7bTo5xLyQ&t=6m[/BBvideo]
At 6:00


I like it, and I´m thinking about adding it before the final test room. What do you think?
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Re: Obsidian Conflict Hazard Course: The old dream

Post by Gary » Mon Jun 17, 2013 8:09 pm

This is single player right? And we could use props/NPCs to act as if other is another player there.

A simple map like this I could probably help out with mapping/IO if you need. I don't know what your level of mapping skills is at Maestro. I never released a map or mod but I know a decent amount. Usually I'm good at the technical level but shit at the design level.

As for where you start skill wise. You could make two maps; one with basic movement that you'd see in hl2/mods. And after completion it would load the second map, teaching OC specific mechanics. Though, you could have a hallway near the first map start that lets you bypass basic training, in case the player already knows how to climb ladders and stuff.

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Re: Obsidian Conflict Hazard Course: The old dream

Post by Maestro Fénix » Mon Jun 17, 2013 9:07 pm

Gary wrote:This is single player right? And we could use props/NPCs to act as if other is another player there.

A simple map like this I could probably help out with mapping/IO if you need. I don't know what your level of mapping skills is at Maestro. I never released a map or mod but I know a decent amount. Usually I'm good at the technical level but shit at the design level.

As for where you start skill wise. You could make two maps; one with basic movement that you'd see in hl2/mods. And after completion it would load the second map, teaching OC specific mechanics. Though, you could have a hallway near the first map start that lets you bypass basic training, in case the player already knows how to climb ladders and stuff.
Well, I thought it as a multiplayer because:

1: Is not official, so it can´t appear as an extra option in the main menu like someone suggested, so the people only we will play it on the servers (no one is going to download a SP map for a co-op mod).

2: Some puzzles needs cooperation of another players. NPCs could fake this, but some of them, like the crane, or the moving objects with two people, it wouldn´t look good. (And at some aspects like the player indicators or indirect use of the healer, I don´t know I could do it).

About my skills, I gonna say they are "adecuate" (just look at Siege and Vicarious Traumatization, that only is at 1/4). I need futher training at making a good looking map to be close to the "Black Mesa quality" (or at least, at a decent map), but, on terms of optimization, use of entities, and general use, I´m decent (everything can be improved anyway).

Having two maps would definitely give more room to more detail at the training (and the post "real" battle), and it would grant skip a part of it as you said. Alright (although that means I would need again to think about how it would be the "overview" of the map).
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Re: Obsidian Conflict Hazard Course: The old dream

Post by Gary » Mon Jun 17, 2013 9:34 pm

Maestro Fénix wrote: Well, I thought it as a multiplayer because:

1: Is not official, so it can´t appear as an extra option in the main menu like someone suggested, so the people only we will play it on the servers (no one is going to download a SP map for a co-op mod).
If we talked with the team and produced something of high-quality we probaby could get it as a menu option. I just thought it would be hard for new players to play it to begin with. Since unless there's going be a constant online "training" server, I can't see a bunch of players on a server going "hey, a noob just joined, let's vote to play the training map next!".

Maestro Fénix wrote: 2: Some puzzles needs cooperation of another players. NPCs could fake this, but some of them, like the crane, or the moving objects with two people, it wouldn´t look good. (And at some aspects like the player indicators or indirect use of the healer, I don´t know I could do it).
I guess some problems would be stuff like that. We'd need to have training modes for some features(for example, the giving money feature would have to work on a fake player). Which wouldn't be difficult, but I'd imagine that the team is busy with bugfixing and working on current planned features. This training map idea I think would be really good for the steam release, since the mod will be exposed to many new people and a training level would help keep people from joining servers that don't know about features the mod has or how to use them.

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Re: Obsidian Conflict Hazard Course: The old dream

Post by Maestro Fénix » Mon Jun 17, 2013 9:56 pm

Well, looked from that perspective, focusing the map to a single player would mean raise the detail, since less resources should be spent on anti-grief systems, as well as having an extended range of threshold on the FPS (because 60 FPS aren´t the same offline than online).

You have this time totally the truth related with regular players making rtv to skip the map.
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